are thier still any noble men in the world?

and listen to tornadomushroom if you dont want to read my lengthy posts. Nice guy = Nice Girl .. same thing. it's the niceness.. not gender.

"Try this - but, dont talk to the significant person till they talk to you first, one word answers, don't tell them your plans for the week, be mysterious. you will SEE instantly the difference in the way they treat you. your importance goes up as they might be losing you" This is incredibly bad advice. Playing this kind of hard-to-get game works on certain people but not others. People who don't like head games and who have neither the time or patience to be played with are not going to react to this in the way that you expect or want. If they realize you're playing this game, they're going to walk. If they don't realize it, they'll think you're not interested. This has virtually nothing to do with gender. My own reaction to a person who acts like this is to shrug and move on to someone who is actually interested and willing to be straight with me about their feelings and wants.

Sir, respectfully, you've been through ordeals? or have you not? Would you call yourself a man? or a boy? My services cater to a certain audience. my advice is for people who get stuck as back-ups, or just friends. To teach them a few crucial facts that you have amassed over the years. and when you're 20 years old, this is not considered head games. it is just good business sense. when you're mature, yes you rely on experience. but not when you're 20. you have none. oh wait, when you're older you already know how to do this, so you dont talk about it.. hence it's not bad advice, it's something you just know. Anyway- you have full right to get offended, despite my intentions. And yes, see how I have already mentioned it's not the gender. thank you for affirming it. Grocery Store approach. If you dont like what I say, don't pick it up. if you think it's worth a try, go for it. Just for gods sake, start valuing your own self MORE, and DISPLAYING that fact to others, that's how you become desirable. That is all.

Yes, I have been through ordeals--enough in the nearly 22 years since I turned 18 to write a few books about it, both the good and the bad. I would call myself both a man and a boy, depending on the context, and fail to see how the distinction bears on anything I said. I'm not offended, I just don't agree with you. Head games are head games, regardless of how old you are when you're doing them. If you pretend not to be interested in someone when you are, if you send them signals that suggest you are indifferent when you're not, you are not communicating your true intentions to them. You are counting on them to read between the lines and either correctly guess what you really mean/want, or be so into you that they stay engaged even when it seems that you're not. That weights the outcome heavily in favor of pure luck, of hoping that the other person is playing the same game you are or that they can read your mind. This isn't honest. It's broken communication between two people who are not necessarily on the same page, not expressing what they really want, and where both sides may not even agree on the rules or intent of the game. Some people are okay with that. I'm not one of them. Communication is, IMO, the key to a stable long-term relationship. Head games operate at cross-purposes to clear communication. I realize that not everyone in the world works this way. Mine is not a one-size-fits-all approach. But the kind of person who is going to play hard-to-get--or who wants me to play that way--is not who I want to be with anyway.

Head games are head games but the problem is, hardly ever do 2 people click immediately. One will always play mind games, intentionally and/or unintentionally. It's not fun but it happens more often than not and almost all the time. Why do you think people play the Chasing Game? Ever find yourself Chasing? all the time? Thought so. Guys like girls want to know if a girl/guy will chase after them. It's normal. Being a nice guy almost immediately means that you'll be friendzoned. There is a reason why there's that one phrase " Nice guys finish last ". It's true. Being the NICE GUY means that you're trying too hard to impress the girl with your niceness. Yeah, it's not bad but girls, like guys are retarded, and cannot distinguish NEED from WANT. This is where Physical Attraction comes in. There is a lot more behind it. But i can clearly confirm that girls, all kinds of girls, are a lot more attracted to me when I jokingly act like I'm conceited or hot shit. Perhaps my definition of "NICE GUY" is different from everyone here. It's hard to explain and I'll try to explain later if no one grasps the point I'm trying to make.

In my opinion it's not "nice guys" that finish last, but rather nice, dull guys. Some guys are just generally nice and they can't help being nice, but they're also interesting and funny. That's kinda what makes the attractive--at least in my eyes. No girl wants a shitty guy either, and vice versa. We girls can be nice too and finish last because there was someone out there that was more interesting/appealing (personality-wise and physically). Niceness can only get you so far, but being someone that catches your attention or is exciting to talk to avoids that "boredom". Being bored of your partner, in my opinion, is far worse than hating your partner since when you hate you at least have them in your mind. `

I cannot even begin to express how much I dislike the term "friendzone". It has this implicit assumption in the way it gets used these days that "mere" friendship is a bad thing. I think we are definitely running into a problem with defining our terms, though. Also, this: "In my opinion it's not "nice guys" that finish last, but rather nice, dull guys. Some guys are just generally nice and they can't help being nice, but they're also interesting and funny." Words of wisdom.

You may dislike the term, but it is the term used when the specific individual is aiming for more than just friendship. They want a physical and mental relationship. One that involves love, sex, emotion. "Mere" Friendship is not acceptable to these individuals. That is why the term "Friendzone" works the way it does. It makes perfect sense and it should be seen that way.

.. Tornado you are nailing it in fewer words than I could hope for. carry on... ...Here take my energy - prepare that spirit bomb! \..../ .\O/ ..| ..| Also, think about it - a nice GUY OR GIRL - by their traits, will appear to be dull, because they don't know how to 'promote' themselves. Which is what I am insisting on. They think the world is idealistic, and their crush will realize their importance... And No, Girls/Guys are NOT that smart or perceptive. they need to big hints. The one's who are interesting and funny - know how to promote themselves.