debate

ah well sorry but to keep things organized unless you want to debate on how to keep the egg industry "cruelty free" (which im not sure would really be a debate or a discussion?) then im not interested on just having a convo, sorry i like debating, not talking about veganism

yeah no problem if you ever do want to debate on it for any reason im almost always here

*takes deep breath* ah my beautiful thread looking to debate veganism or abortion (i think iv got a good argument for it now)

A real answer to the debate of using animals as food is the reality humans are in themselves animals. We consume as they consume. No chicken is a vegan when they pick off insects that are living creatures. No fox that eats the chicken thinks twice about the morals of it. People should conserve their resources and eat a balanced diet. That I agree is a real problem. Health illnesses caused by modern chemicals is a myth because the average human is living longer than those that did 100 years ago. Back in my great grandfather's time you would be lucky to make it 40 years. So, if the fox and chicken can eat each other and my local farm uses chemicals that keep them from spoiling, why am I feeling terrible about living off them? Also plants are living creatures too so if you eat them then you are still killing an innocent living creature. Oh and so are the bacteria you kill washing your hands. Have you seen what tortures bacteria suffer through when you use that horrible hand sanitizer that also happens to damage your skin too? Better get used to feeding off sunlight alone for nutrition and never bathing to do your part to NEVER harm another LIVING creature no matter how small or gross. https://img.webmd.com/dtmcms/live/webmd/consumer_assets/site_images/articles/health_tools/sunlight_and_your_health_slideshow/493ss_thinkstock_rf_woman_in_park.jpg

awesome, i was so bored "We consume as they consume. No chicken is a vegan when they pick off insects that are living creatures. No fox that eats the chicken thinks twice about the morals of it." My counter would be that humans have the highest level of sentience and are able to distinguish right from wrong. If a chicken knew that bugs suffered when it ate them and had an alternative I would also judge that chicken for not using the alternative. Humans may be animals but we are so far removed from the animal kingdom that nothing we do involves nature anymore. You are not hunting your meat like a lion, your choosing to buy it in the grocery store. "People should conserve their resources and eat a balanced diet. That I agree is a real problem." I'd rather keep this to ethics but it's just cold hard fact that we could end world hunger if we used the food we grow for animals instead for humans. The number one cause of deforestation is for farming. "So, if the fox and chicken can eat each other and my local farm uses chemicals that keep them from spoiling, why am I feeling terrible about living off them?" Can you reiterate this for me please? I don't really understand what you mean, I apologize. "Also plants are living creatures too so if you eat them then you are still killing an innocent living creature." Plants do not feel pain, they simply react to stimuli. If meat grew on trees and no one got hurt I wouldn't mind them being eaten. I simply wish to reduce the amount of suffering. Suffering can not be fully expelled, but the goal of veganism is to cause as little harm and suffering as reasonably possible. "Oh and so are the bacteria you kill washing your hands. Have you seen what tortures bacteria suffer through when you use that horrible hand sanitizer that also happens to damage your skin too?" Do bacteria feel pain? I genuinely don't know, but I will say I put my health above that of any other creature. If a cow is attacking someone I believe they have every right to kill it. The issue is animal farming is not necessary and simply serves to kill and torture animals for humans taste pleasure. "Better get used to feeding off sunlight alone for nutrition and never bathing to do your part to NEVER harm another LIVING creature no matter how small or gross." I suppose your trying to be satirical but if humans could live that way and be healthy I would urge them to do that, yes. I could parody that statement and say "Why would I forgo something that's tasty just so I'm not personally funding an industry that murders and tortures innocent beings? What am I, someone that can distinguish right from wrong? C'mon."

Your hang up is a moral high ground created by your own personal agenda. Right and wrong by whose standards? I know you don't believe in God so it isn't by holy means you wish to SAVE someone or thing. So I need context for who this RIGHT and WRONG has been written in stone for? True people should not torture animals I agree. I still don't see the need to stop eating them though. Also to clarify about plants I did not say pain. I said that if you REALLY cared about saving everything from death you wouldn't do anything in your daily life because at some point you would disturb someone elses. It's nice to believe we live isolated from the rest of the world but we don't. That is the only answer I can give you. Yet I would like to see more done to reduce waste I will agree to that sentiment.

First of all I'm catholic, I believe in god and I give thanks. However I don't derive my ethics from my religion. I derive my ethics from empathy. So you let me see if I understand your point; Torturing animals is wrong unless its for their meat? And I never said I cared about saving everything from death, in my own response I said I just want to do as little harm as reasonably possible. Isolation has really nothing to do with this topic as far as I can see. If you would like to see a positive change to the environment than I recommend going vegan, the Paris Climate Change Report even says its one of the best things you can do to reduce your environment footprint. Can I ask you a question? What is it about animals that takes away their moral consideration, and why can't that same trait be applied to a human to take away their moral consideration?