(Female responses preferred) Guy becoming friends to get in a relationship?

It´s in some point manipulative to try to get into a relationship with someone who are considering as your friend. I never hooked up with someone who used to be my friend. I got asked out a lot but always denied it because he was my friend not the one I loved or felt attracted too. To me it just destroyed a few of my friendships.

It's not just guys who do this, women do it a lot themselves - just the same as girls get friendzoned and get the "nice girl" treatment. It does happen, people just seem to focus more on men doing these things and I don't think that's unfair because they often take more drastic measures than women tend to but just know these kind of things happen with women as well. But onto the main topic, I don't think it's a bad thing by any means. We're very social and sexual creatures afterall and the good looking guy or girl we see will catch our eye and we tend to think to ourselves (I wonder if he/she would be interested?) and we give it a go. That whole making friends thing is actually a good thing, it allows us to get to know the person we're interested in, what they like, dislike and see how they are personality-wise. It's just that some people are really impatient and try to rush, rush, rush from friend to lover very quickly and some people aren't comfortable with that, so people end up getting friendzoned before the chance of love begins to bloom. A lot of the time people take it really poorly when they REALLY want that person they barely knew the other week (or day in some cases) and perhaps still barely know, so I can see why it would bother people so much and I wouldn't blame anyone. So in these cases, people just need to accept their choice and just stay as friends and look for someone else, it's the best these people can do. Personally I never really do this, I make friends with people to make new friends initially, getting to know them, seeing what they like and dislike and what-not. But if I do start having feelings for a girl, I'll tell her as honest as possible and just hope she accepts me. As you might guess that hasn't been going well for me but I reckon that's the best and most honest way of hoping to go out with someone and even if you don't get that, you at least have a new friend who has a good idea of who you are. Hell in some special cases, they might offer to hook you up with on their single friends, several of my friends had that happen to them and they've been successful. I was speaking to my friend about this kind of thing and she told me that she friendzoned her husband in a HUGE way because he rushed her before but then eventually when he confessed his love to her again her opinion of him just suddenly turned around just like that (This is perhaps the first time I've EVER heard of that happening) and they got together and eventually got married. I found that interesting and enlightening - it just taught me that it mostly happens because people are impatient and rush into that scenario which leads to disappointment when with more time and patience getting to know each other, the result may have been completely different. But then again, she's the one who told me that the cute guys and girls are the ones that always get friendzoned, so there seems to be several sides to the whole friendzone story. She told me I was one of the cute guys so that might be one of the reasons that explains why I'm having a hard time but she went on to say someone would eventually notice me for who I am, so until then I just gotta keep being me and take it all in stride, which admittedly I've always been doing that but it really accentuated to me that you can't expect the result you want and honestly, keeping that in mind the whole time I've been living a much happier life since, I just know my time will come eventually. And I'm sure a lot of people can live by my friends advice as well.

(as a girl) I really dislike it when a guy approaches me when he wants to be "friends" but actually the intent of a relationship. I UNDERSTAND it's human nature to be attracted to that certain person, but don't expect something out of the other person. If they reject you, don't whine about the "friendzone." [When you approach a girl and say to her that you just want to be friends with her, that is what she'll expect. Nothing more, nothing less.] This bracket pertains to me; I realized that not all girls are like this. Jesus christ, what are we in highschool? LOL just ask out the girl you like, and if she rejects you, then deal with it. Move on to the next person.

@InfernalMonsoon - "She told me I was one of the cute guys so that might be one of the reasons that explains why I'm having a hard time but she went on to say someone would eventually notice me for who I am, so until then I just gotta keep being me and take it all in stride" - This is an innocent lie to let you down soft but it is anything but merciful. Since my generation guys have been socialized to be softer gentler men who then were too nice and as a consequence had low self confidence, drive, and unattractive socially for being contrary to our true natures. Ironically being the sweet love puppy that serves their desires for a partner put women on pedestals which often unintentionally objectifies them even more than sexual desires have in the past. 'Be yourself' is a hollow platitude where 'be true to yourself or your best self' is better advice. If you are not succeeding then 'yourself' might not be good enough yet (certainly was not for her was it) and it is a disservice to make you think you are when you may not be...not saying you are not I do not know you IRL. This is not a unique phenomenon. I can tell you through experience the other end of that lie: An article I see often "Where have all the good men gone?". Echoed by an increasingly number of 30 something old women that spent their bodies best years getting a career for big money and/or banging the wild guys that got them tingly inside and suddenly want the nice stable puppy as a mule to provide for them if they failed to tame a bad boy that now ignores them for the next lay. The cute/nice guy is plan B for beta. There is a natural biological reason for this so you have to give people some slack or you will grow to hate them one day. After a few years and kids (if they don't have them from playing the field already) they will get bored and either torment their partners for having to settle on someone too soft and/or will cheat to fulfill their appetites, or bang themselves in the bath to 50 Shades of Grey. I get giggly now when I hear them lament for having not invested their social value in those nice guys from way back as they pet one of their dozen cats. Men have long been told women want their partners to be their best friends firstly (which is part of a formula for good relationships certainly) but not how to go about it properly. So by a man's mind which is usually governed in logic will sometimes think it's best to befriend women to get close to them before making a case to date. This also lets them confirm their feelings before getting in too deep emotionally. History has proven this is a low-success reproductive strategy but society keeps telling us to be nice and sensitive men killing attraction and drying panties in swaths like a desert. Men in modern society have many barriers to socialize as they are often assumed to be of ill intent automatically by their sex. Instead of being taught how to own and control their masculinity they are shamed for it and derided into being forever alone, a slave to a land whale that hates them, or they lose it and turn into an Elliot Rodgers at the worst. It is fine to befriend someone you like but if you are looking for more say so early and quickly and accept the answer with respect and dignity and be done with it. Men have to be clear and decisive or they flounder with whatever they can scrape up or scrapes them up. OP I know you were looking for mostly female responses but given the demographic ratios and what I was reading I couldn't resist. =p

People really do this, no way. O.o....pfft nah I've seen a few instances of this and done this in the past as well. I've gained a lot of cool friends because of it and lost a few because of it as well. Also I know of a few guys that are with girls waiting for pick them up once they fall because sometimes tension is built up in the relationship and they know it all too well, as well as know how to handle the girl if they've known them for awhile. It sucks when you can see it, but can't get that point across because that whole friendship factor buts in. But I can say this is an all too natural occurrence within cons. And it's very amusing to watch.

@InfernalMonsoon I greatly your thoughtout explanation and i can actually see a bit more why people find it more of an option, although i still dislike it, it is good to have more backing to it. @DarkuSchneider Actually, Women like men who are honest from the start and who don't try to "Be nice". and it will cut out a lot of the "feeling betrayed" if you just come out and say you have feelings but respect their response regardless. . This IN NO WAY means they want an asshole. This means they want someone who is themselves! I don't want someone that just does nice things for me. 1, it makes me feel like a selfish bitch, and 2, it's not me getting to know who they are. i want a partner that's fun and weird as i am! I want to know who they ARE not what they can do. Just as you would with friends, be yourself. It's pointless to find love that doesn't accept who you are.You're a person, not a servant. I do appreciate all you your feedback.

@frasia2162 - It's really just a matter of being graceful about the situation I think, because for the majority of "nice guys" do the things that you're talking about and reading the article that xueli put up (if you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend it - it's a pretty awesome read) there are too many guys that do that and the ones that do this crap and believe they are "nice guys" are anything but because all they want to do is to get inside the girl's pants but the girl really just sees it as nothing more than friendship. Those people are really nothing more than butthurt manchildren and they have no right to complain or give shit to the girl they're going for. If a girl isn't feeling it for them then a girl just isn't feeling it for them, it's as simple as that, and that lack of acceptance, that lack of grace is what makes them complete fools. I think my approach to the whole from-friends-to-lovers thing is a lot better and healthier for both parties, that's how the majority of my relationships happened and knowing that person beforehand is pretty great and getting to know them and growing to have feelings for them is pretty great especially when they accept. Even when they don't accept me and they just want to stay friends that's perfectly fine with me - I'm more than happy being a friend or even a really good friend they can trust. It's a matter of keeping an open mind with more than one option and if one person isn't feeling it, then there's no harm in staying friends and moving onto the next option who might accept. I just make sure I let the person know before I get lumped entirely into the friendzone and, then again, if I'm a friend to them, nothing more, nothing less then that's alright. It just depends on the girl in this case, some girls love this friendly approach while others not so much and that's ok. If people can play their cards right and have the patience but also the initiative to ask when the time is right and they get accepted then hurray! People just need to go in not expecting the answer they want. Just the aspects of keeping an open mind and accepting you may not get the girl can change that situation entirely to much more positive one and that whole thing counts for girls as well. And don't worry, I understand if you dislike it because most of these people take the bad approach to the situation.

@DarkuSchneider - I appreciate your harsh, honest response on that (honestly I found your answer quite fascinating), I never knew what to make of that myself - while it certainly made me feel better at the time when she said that, I always go back and think about it wondering whether she's right or wrong whenever I look at myself. But I've never been down on what she's said even if it is a lie, maybe it's just me disallowing that kind of statement to influence my mindset, because I know a lot of guys let those kinds of things get to their heads which in turn creates the "nice guys" (I've seen it happen to one of my friends before who became one of those "nice guys"). I never let that kind of thing go to my head because I don't want to be in an equally bad mindset. (But for all I know, she might genuinely mean that - she's never been the kind of person to lie. And I certainly don't doubt her when she says I'll eventually find someone, I know I will. I guess it's really just me leaving it up to my own judgement because I know I have so much to learn - I'm just trying to see the situation from all points of view, it might only take a few small adjustments to yield better results. I'm just trying to figure out where I'm going wrong.) Personally, I try to be myself and true to myself at the same time - I've always been aware of my flaws whether they be physical or personality-wise and I've always did my best to fix them. I know where my strengths are so I focus on them instead of trying to pretend I'm great at anything and everything (similarly to how the "nice guys" only shine their positive aspects, pretending they're perfect - I sort of covered this in the "great personality" thread I posted in the forums). And I keep a happy and healthy mindset, I never go in expecting the answer I want - in fact I always expect the one I don't want and when I face the answer I don't want - I just smile and stay friends with them and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But like you said about saying it early, I try to tell them as early as possible, just when I get a good idea on who they are and I like who they are and in a lot of cases it worked and of course in others, it didn't and that's perfectly fine. Perhaps my definition of early could be a little too late but it might just depend on the girl. Personally, I never once considered myself to be a bad boy nor a nice guy - and honestly I have no idea what people would consider me but I'm open to advice and criticism and seeing as you're twice my age I think your advice would be really valuable in my and many other people's cases. I mean I'm never going out of my way to find someone, I just make friends and if I end up liking someone, I'll ask them out, it's that simple for me and I still consider that's the best method for me. But I have been getting it pretty rough recently so obviously there is something I'm doing wrong that might be easily fixed if I just look deeper into the situation, maybe I'm just going after the wrong type of girls or maybe my method just needs some tweaking, it might just be that I need to be even more straight forward than I already am with myself and the woman I would be interested in. It might just be, like you said, I may have to channel more of my bad boy side (the aspects that women find attractive - just hoping I have them :D Of course, while avoiding the negative aspects) whilst being myself in the process. I might have to ask my ex on this one (We're pretty much best friends now, so I can trust her to be honest with me on this one), see what she honestly thinks on where I went right and where I went wrong because the answer could be so simple yet I'm missing it in plain sight and I don't even realise it. But thanks for your honesty Schneider, I've always been very self-critical but I think seeing it from another person's perspective from someone with more experience than me would be really valuable for my and many other people's situations. But I will say that I'm still going to stick with my method of getting to know someone first but I've always kept and will keep myself open to criticism on how to really improve my method and myself. I hope that clarifies my situation a little more and I'll take that criticism on the chin.