debate

i edited that because i was misremembering. I said they had basic brains but I think I was thinking of their stomachs. So yeah, they don't feel pain. Do you still think plants feel pain?

Yes i believe they do. But There is no way for us to know for sure Because the only data we can base it off of is ofc ourselves. We know we feel pain because of receptors but because they lack it doesnt mean they dont feel it. How do we test this? We cant. But it has a will to live right? How does something that is not aware of surroundings know its about to die?

@hell_hound7 I'll ask again. How do they feel pain if they lack nerves? They react to very basic stimuli. Venus flytraps use a spring lock like system where when it feels pressure water compresses and it makes the lid shut. It doesn't feel the flies tiny feet, it reacts to pressure. They have motor cells inside their stems that react to the differences in light. Grass has a smell because it's trying to heal itself using chemicals and act as a deterent. Can you tell me what makes you so sure they feel pain? The scientific consensus is that you can't feel pain (which is a complex sensation) without a nervous system and brain to process it, so what facts do you have that causes you to believe otherwise?

My my, it seems my argument has met it's impass. I will concede that inside M Night's movies, eating plants is also immoral, unless they are mean plants that attack you first :P

Still up to debate veganism on the stance of ethics Just name a trait or series of traits that animals possess and humans lack that allows you to forgo their moral consideration

How about your thoughts on honey? Personally I think farming honey from bees is fine and ethical, and it’s mutually beneficial too. They get a safe place to stay and work, their species thrives off of our farming, they’re free to be a bee, and we get honey from them. Plus the more bees there are the better plant life does as well. Veganism excluding honey mustn’t be an ethical thing, unless I’m mistaken.

@auntron_ I'm against it, because how most of these farms operate actually isn't ethical. Many glue the queen down or clip their wings because bees naturally migrate, so they don't want to risk losing the hive. There is also a debate to be had whether or not stealing their honey is moral. Taking the honey they worked to create and just giving them sugar water is wrong. The sugar water they're given isn't good for them either, so to say that it's a symbiotic relationship because they're given food isn't true either. They can create their own habitats, food, and protect themselves, so there isn't really an edge being kept by humans. If you keep a hive, give them the space they need, don't coerce them into staying in that space, and let them keep their honey I think it's fine as a hobby. It's probably more ethical to simply plant purple plants (which bees are most attracted to) and try and conserve their population. Overall honey is not considered Vegan because it is an animal byproduct, and many would consider it stealing from the creature that created it. Maaaaaybe if you only take a tiny bit it would be ok, but idk. I'm not very well researched in this, and this is my knee jerk response.

@momoichi I see (^^), very interesting c:. My friend has an uncle that keeps bees as a hobby, he treats them well and thankfully doesn’t glue down the queen… it’s horrible anyone would do that. I agree though, if you treat them right then I think it’s ethical at least in my opinion. Oh how about lab grown meat? How would you feel about this topic haha. Some of the benefits are: cleaner meat, no animal suffering, condensed space so less farmland, 98% decrease in methane production from farms, there are more in sure but I’m also sure there are cons too. As a vegetarian, when I researched this I felt conflicted XD.