debate

yeah ofcourse! i layed a lot down xD again I hope my final question doesn't make you too uncomfortable, but that's just how discussions on ethics come down to, some unethical stuff, ya know? and it really is an important question when you think about where you derive your ethics

@lamby the problem with using human rights on animals, is rights for humans who have a moral compass and an understanding of what rights even are, also humans aren't entitled to rights, their rights for civilized people who agree to follow it for the better of everyone. Giving all human rights to an animal would be the same as giving a gun to a child because he has the right to bare arms, when he doesn't have the mental compacity to under he could hurt someone. An animal's instincts don't allow for rights or equality it just isn't in them by nature.

"Why exactly does this not extend to other things the majority of people agree to being ethical?" It will/does/did. at those periods in time! to me, morality can only be as objective as the hivemind of the cognitive entities that contribute to it. those things that happened in the past which are objectively depraved now were not objectively depraved then, no? i'm not super familiar with objective/subjective morality discourse so I am conflating ethics and morality and not truly using these words correctly, but I feel like the math-y definition of objective morality is whatever the majority of ppl agree on is what's cool/acceptable. "Does this make cannibalism ethical?" not totally certain in those specific situations. seems like that would be something one has to consent to prior to being engaged in as the consumed. but i think that if a sapient consenting individual is okay with that then yeah it's totally ethical. i would even go on to say it's freaking vegan because autonomy wasn't violated and didn't involve an animal incapable of rational thought and expression (that being said, i don't know fuck all about the tenets of veganism, trivially =p) "I hold human lives above animals the same way I hold a scientists life above a homeless persons" I mean sure it has a greater value in terms of progressing technology and quality of life for mankind, but does that societal value TRULY merit a higher *existential* standing as well? I sincerely feel the opposite. If I could choose between saving the brightest 50k or so people that would go on and make the world a philanthropic utopia or saving everyone else, i'd probably save everyone else. just some insight as to the kinda person I am/want to be seen as. fuck smart people a bit haha "that killing something for an unreasonable reason is also objectively wrong" i think that's where the exchange gets passionate/heated/disputed. vegans and meatppl (dunno hifalutin word, i saw carnist somewhere?) disagree what classifies as "something" as well as what is an "unreasonable reason". so until that bridge can be formally gapped from party to party I see an impass before us. "This is getting into metaethics and this will sound a bit risque, but this is how discussions on morality become, they get uncomfortable." perfect! I wouldn't have spent so much time introspecting on every bizarre topic under the sun and embraced the open-minded stances I have now if I didn't appreciate the comfy as well as the uncomfy. "Would it be moral, [immoral], or amoral for a man to rape someone in a coma. That person would never find out they were raped, and the man will get pleasure out of it." to me, it would be exceedingly immoral. bodily autonomy is definitely something that should be held sacred for sapient creatures. to violate that in most cases (maybe aside from restraining a violent person and the like) is obnoxious as it's an obvious no-no. i think someone who would could get so wrapped up in physical pleasure to the point where they'd violate someone's autonomy like that is pretty shortsighted and primitive. [hu]man have the big brain for a reason! may as well use it and not be a jackass haha. that all being said, no matter how concentrated a space is with evil and disgusting situations/places/people, the fabric of existence will still hold. time will still progress, gravity still gonna do its thing. l guess as lovely as it is to get wrapped up in human instinct and romance of life, life is inconsequential to universal function and, to me, has some inexplicable impact on ethics and morality, both objective and subjective. tl;dr so i'm a bit confused haha. this has been fun tho!

ye ye take your timee! i'm new here, cool if i send this friend request that i'm about to send? it would be an honor to have my first friend here be an ethicist such as yourself =p i do mean that tho. love fighting with words in a friendly sparring way, not like an "i'm super angry that you don't feel the same way" way. definitely good funn

i usually dont accept friend requests because its not a symbol of 'friendship', it's all just vein posturing, so I only add people who might need to dm me but ill make an exception incase you ever wanna contact me for a discussion on ethics or veganism :3 (FYI I'm terrible at small talk and Im bad at responding to dms ;w;)