Double Standards: Sexism and Feminism

@sun I could have sworn you said you're a feminist. I refuse to support any of the 3 groups. Including the Feminist counter parts misogynist. All this does is divide and tear us apart.

@Rapp it was in one of the first few pages (it was the third page), but I said I used to be able to proudly call myself a feminist. I will always be in support of gender equality, but feminism has gone to hell. I made a total of at least 7 posts about feminism going to hell lol @Dagger I made that argument (about the work force one). It doesn't make sense, right?

I don't really have anything too important to add. I think it's hard for men to understand women's issues, just like it's difficult for whites to know what it's like being black, for straights to know what it's like being gay, etc; I think at one point or another we've all tried to make assumptions about another person's situation without actually being in their shoes and going through the same experiences. Sure, us men do have it hard; everyone has it hard. Men suffer from a disproportionate amount of total violence, murder, homelessness, depression suicide, and we have problems getting children during divorce even when we're the more qualified parent. We're also forced to register with the selective service in case the military draft is ever brought back. The push back against feminism probably comes not from a deep-seated hatred of women, but actually a fundamental misunderstanding of what women go through; we don't have their experiences. I mean, 'why when I'm suffering to find a job, suffering from a bad marriage, etc, do these feminists keep saying women have'it worse and I'm to blame.' You can go ahead cite all the statistics you want, but they're never going to give you a full picture of what's going on. When it comes to feminism, a problem that's way too common, men constantly bat away women's issues with, "Well what about us? We have it bad too?!" MRAs seem to come to this misguided conclusion that feminists are somehow arguing that they deserve more than men, working from the assumption women have no issues at all. It's true that men have problems, but that doesn't erase women's issues altogether. This shouldn't become the oppression Olympics. A good married couple helps each other through their issues. Actually take the time to understand each other with an open mind, not downplaying each other at every turn or making it seem like one person has it worse than the other. If you read feminists' articles with the mindset they're out to get you, then you're not going to learn anything at all. And... I'm getting bored of typing. Back to watching one of my ecchi anime :P

**Warning - extremely long read** I'm going to go at the OP (and thus any opinions stemmed from it) in order of the way it was brought up. So I'll start with the abortion issue, go the the wage gap, I'll touch on the beauty standards and maybe a double standard or two, and the dress codes issue. First I'll start with what I agree about OP on As far as abortion goes a woman should have the FINAL say and the heavily weighted say but not the ONLY say (more on this later). Also it'd be a pretty good idea for women in our law making congress to be the ones making these laws. Make no restriction at all on an abortion stemming from a pregnancy that resulted from a rape. Also a man should not be given "veto power" that when the woman for whatever reason is dead set on the abortion to force her to go through it anyway. It is overwhelmingly a woman's issue but not 100% women men 0% (much much more on this later) Most guys probably aren't experts when it comes to women's health (particularly with respect to the vagina) or even that well versed Double standards are pervasive both man against woman and in reverse, so of course there are double standards (this doesn't make them right naturally) Society does make more of an issue about a woman's looks than a mans (little more on that later too) so generally women have more pressure on them to "look good" Of course if a woman is dressing revealing shes not "begging for sex" and if a guy could "keep it in his pants" and "stop drooling" that wouldn't be such an unreasonable thing at all to expect *****Feint of heart readers and feminists should probably stop reading now ... I don't ease into this***** Again in order... Abortion- I wanted to agree with OP stance on abortion and it started off reasonable enough and then it went total femi-nazi and totally off base. While again I agree that the woman should have the final say she shouldn't have the ONLY say. Mind you I'm (mostly) talking about pregnancies that arose from **consenting** sex between an adult man and woman (for this purpose 18+) whether or not a pregnancy was planned and where the pregnancy is not going to damage the woman's health to carry through with. To say a man should have ZERO say and be completely left out is so off base and blatantly sexist (which is wrong right?) and insensitive it isn't even funny.... To create that embryo / zygote which will go through the process of becoming a fetus and eventually a human life took TWO people ... so doesn't it make sense that TWO (weighted) opinions should be considered. The fact that TWO people created the situation should mean that TWO people should be involved in resolving the situation. To say that the man should have zero impact what-so-ever because he isn't the one carrying the baby and ergo he has no standing at all is blatant sexism based off some very convenient fact. While it is true that the man does not go through the physical pregnancy and birthing process he is affected, more emotionally than physically which gives him a legitimate leg to stand on and his opinion should be VALUED (however not to supersede which I mentioned before with the "veto power" thing). I mean if the guy should have no feelings what so ever why not perpetuate the "men should be warriors with zero feelings" stigma some more? So the "this issue does not pertain to men" is DEAD WRONG (however it is far more a woman's issue agreed... but it *IS* a man's issue too) and to imply that is a WOMAN'S ONLY issue is blatant sexism (you're devaluing his opinion ONLY because of his sex which isn't that dictionary definition of sexism?) I mean when a woman decides for whatever reason (other than going through with the pregnancy being damaging to her health) I believe that she should at least have the decency to run it by the guy before she acts. Since it took TWO to create the situation to begin with you should at least have the decency to discuss your course of action with him and to value his input (I mean at least hear him out). While sure if he wants the baby for whatever reason you (the woman) are naturally free to refute that and go through it anyway ... but you at least in having a discussion with him showed consideration that is actually warranted and deserved. If you find out you're pregnant and act without even letting him know of the situation I'm not even sorry but that is a low and despicable move (that you didn't let him know - not that you got the abortion to be clear). If you've run it by him and had an honest discussion that was more than "I'm doing this deal with it I don't care what you say so don't even bother saying it" then by all means do what you feel is right... and even if it is that well you're at least running it by him. True story - happened to my best friend (the one from however many posts ago that spotted my first date's bill and third wheeled)... he was once sexually involved with a woman (for all intents and purposes they were fuck buddies which in this discussion makes no real difference to me). At some point a pregnancy occurred and the woman ended up having an abortion. She however in a classless and despicable move did not let my best friend know this until AFTER she had decided to get the abortion. When he discussed and opened up about this to me he wasn't upset one bit she had the abortion itself and he agreed that it was the right decision .... however he was distraught and took a huge emotional hit that she didn't even run it by him. He was actually excited at the thought of being a father and while he admitted he isn't "daddy material" as he is that to have that taken from him without having ANY INPUT OR KNOWLEDGE was a huge blow. So the next time a woman wants to claim that a man should have NO say at all and NO input at all and that it has NO impact on him at all - please silence yourself because that opinion is DEAD FUCKING WRONG (and not to mention blatantly and overtly sexist which is wrong because you're invalidating someone based only on their sex which is dictionary ). I mean if feminism is all about equality where is it? I haven't seen that many female opinions on abortions that even hinted at equality. It is either bashing some (congressmen) men who seem to have close to zero knowledge of the pregnancy process on a woman (which is a fair game completely) or claiming a man has no standing because it is her body. It took TWO to create the situation which makes it MORE than about the woman and only the woman (it just so happens to be in her body but that does NOT make it ONLY about her) Oh wait I'm not nearly done yet I've still got a whole lot more to touch on but I've said my piece about abortion. <<this is merely part one - MO won't let me post my entire sermon at once>>