Debates: Hillary Clinton

I doubt you'll get an actual discussion on this thread because it's really just gonna turn into an unproductive attack on anyone who disagrees with me (in the general sense). Just saying. Personally I don't have a dog in the democratic race. I'm perfectly fine with both democratic nominees but I'm disappointed in a lot of how Bernie supporters as the campaigns go on to the end game

I think you've got to understand that most people over the age of 45 or so get their news filtered through televised media, which is often very biased in favor of establishment candidates. The fact that some media outlets chose to air upwards of 10 minutes worth of empty podium footage while waiting on Trump instead of airing a Bernie Sanders speech happening at the same time says a whole lot. To be fair to Hillary, her voting record on legislation is not that different from many other Democrats. The problem is that, by and large, Democrats have been moving right in terms of economic policy for years now. What I find really troubling is not, "How can people vote for Hillary?" That's easy to understand. She has more name recognition, and she tells people what they want to hear, even if that differs from one state to the next. That's establishment politics in a nutshell. We used to call it "flip-flopping," but now all the pundits just say "pivoting." Let's make it very clear that Hillary is no more guilty of this than 80% of the other politicians out there. The question here should really be, "How can people not vote for Bernie?" Unfortunately, the answer is either misinformation, willful ignorance, or misplaced fear. A lot of people hear "Socialism" and immediately equate that with Communism or Marxism. That's disregarding the fact that "Democratic Socialism" is one step removed from Socialism in that it actually seeks to incorporate socialist ideals within a capitalist framework (which is literally the system we already use). The other thing I hear a lot is that Bernie's plans aren't realistic and that he won't be able to reach across the table to make deals with Republicans and get things done. This is nonsense for a couple of reasons. One is that people overestimate the abilities of the President. The president can veto legislation, issue pardons, and command the military; and that's largely the extent of their power. What's more important is having a leader who keeps the public informed and is good at mobilizing them in order to get people that support his / her positions into lower offices. The other thing is that Senator Sanders actually has a pretty great record on making bipartisan deals. He's worked with Republicans on a number of issues in the past, so I don't know where this idea came from that he wouldn't be able to get anything through. I don't see Hillary succeeding in that area any more than he would, at any rate. We need a leader with foresight and who can see past an action to its consequences. For me, I can't think of any senator who has a better track record on this outside of Bernie. It's extremely disheartening to me that we have this opportunity to vote in someone like FDR in my lifetime, yet we're not going to do it. I find it unfortunate that America has become the country of incremental change instead of a world leader, and we're just going to let other countries evolve past us while we sit on our hands. I've lived six years of my life outside the U.S., and anybody who still says that we are the greatest nation in the world and can't learn anything from other developed countries has simply not been paying attention to anything outside of their own limited experiences. My advice to other Bernie supporters is simply to stay informed of what is going on politically at a local level. Vote for governers and senators who support progressive platforms. That is the only way we can affect real and lasting change; regardless of whether Bernie were to be the next POTUS or not.

Alot of people in my age bracket may just opt out of voting all together ...

Good post Shawnji :D Better said than anything I could have written. Personally I'm voting for Clinton only if I have to avoid a Trump presidency. I refuse to not vote as some people have suggested doing, as then I personally believe you don't have the right to bitch about the outcome. I certainly don't like Clinton but if she's the democratic option in November then I'm not going to have much of a choice. I'm more willing I guess to put up with establishment tools like Clinton until the next Bernie comes along.

@blood&icecream I certainly don't begrudge anyone wanting to vote with their conscience. I'm not in a swing state, so it honestly probably won't matter too much who I vote for; but I do kind of hope that if it looks like a real possibility that Trump could win, people in those swing states will hold their noses and vote for Hillary. However, if they don't, I personally think that's on Hillary for not working to convince Bernie supporters that they should vote for her.