Lamby

Lamby @momoichi you lost me at vile orcs (during this time werent orcs slaves???)

Ghost @kuharido It's derogatory. I do respect honorable orcs like Rehgar and Go'el though. Don't be so sensitive.

Lamby @momoichi my honor is on the line, i will never allow one to speak in such a distasteful way about my people

Ghost @kuharido Yet your people brought the fel to my people's home.

Lamby @momoichi that was the fault of the draenei, corrupting my innocent race. we knew nothing of such evil. we were victims, cursed with this blood that still courses through our younglings veins.

Ghost @kuharido I seem to recall the willingness of the orcs to embrace the fel for power. Instead of us, humans, using our strength and wits like the orcs claim to value.

Lamby @momoichi it took your strength and wits to enslave us? us orcs were ignorant of such evils as the fel, yet you humans, who were under no ones influence but your own, chained us and forced us into labor camps. starved us and left us beaten and bruised. yet you still hold yourself superior morally. laughable

Ghost @kuharido It was protecting our world against you. After you attempted a full scale invasion it was only natural to pacify you.

Lamby @momoichi slavery was a means of protecting yourselves, huh? our invasion was to find a new world because thanks to the draenei the legion has taken hold of our once lush green land, digging their poisonous claws into it. it was because of your allies that we orcs were forced from our homes and then enslaved, as if we hadn't had it hard enough. *spits on the ground* your people know nothing of suffering! know nothing of sacrifice and desperation!

Ghost @kuharido Funny you're so quick to critique our protection methods when you massacred the draenei and used them to fuel the fel. I saw the path of glory paved with the bones of innocent draenai.

Lamby @momoichi innocent draenei....? they had a ship that worked. they could have left any time. it was them that selfishly stayed, knowing the legion was looking for them. it was the legion that whispering into nerzhuls ear sweetly, in disguise of his long dead mate. by the time the orcs realized who was behind this that it was too late. there is nothing innocent about the selfish draenei. they knew the orcs were there, knew the legion was looking for them, and did nothing to stop the inevitable. they damned my innocent people.

Ghost @kuharido I don't know what nonsense you whisper in those huts but the draenai didn't have a working ship. It crash landed. The orcs took advantage of a vulnerable group instead of the horde boasting freedom they were elated with massacre.

Lamby @momoichi how do you think they got to azeroth? they didnt go through the gate, that was full of orcs. they got on their ship and crashed (again) meaning the ship worked. meaning they could have left at any time.

Ghost @kuharido When it crashed on draenor it stopped working.

Lamby @momoichi but it didnt. it still had naru shit in it which the orcs used to contact theyr ancestors. did they need to fix it? sure but not too much as it was in orc territory and they didnt have that much time to work on it as if they werent fast the orcs would have slaughtered them. so when they landed all that had to do was continue working on the ship to leave again once they saw that orcs were there. they had multiple centuries to do this, but they didnt. they chose to stay and let the orcs use the ship as a place of worhship instead (kek wor-ship, get it?)

Lamby @momoichi might i add that the orcs and draenei were extremely civil before the legion came. they occasionally traded and otherwise left eachother 100% alone. it wasnt orcs who did it, it was the legions influence

Lamby @momoichi AND the draenei were extremely confused when the orcs became violent. it was then that velen was like ".......ooohhh shit its the legion aint it...."

Ghost @kuharido You can't make raw materials out of thin air. Where would thry even go? On a serious note it was really the legions fault that's why we banned together. Then it was Illidan who really led the defeat of the legion.

Lamby @momoichi then how did they get to azeroth if not through the ship?

Ghost @kuharido They got there but it crashed as soon as it did.

Lamby @momoichi yes. but how did they do that if the ship was broken and they couldnt leave dreanor?

Ghost @kuharido Didn't they do that after the massacre with the help of the alliance?

Lamby @momoichi no, like i said they got onto the ship (with the help of durotan i think? could be wrong) and then flew away, crash landing on azeroth, which is the draenei starting zone

Lamby @momoichi the portal was started by the nelfs solely to let in the orcs, not anything else, so they had to fly away to get off draenor

Ghost @kuharido Okay, this is one of those things we have to brush up on the lore to know exactly. I remember our Garrosh debate.

Lamby @momoichi but i know thats what happened :o i read rise of the horde, the book that chronicles what exactly happened during the war between the orcs and the draenei (great read i recommend it)

Ghost @kuharido Small details can be forgotten that happens to anyone. We're not the lore master after all. I remember you got some things wrong with Garrosh. I did all this research for that debate.

Lamby @momoichi it was hardly a debate xD it was me saying hes a good dude. can you remember what i got wrong? i think the only thing was the bombing of that city, and the only reason i didnt know about it was cause its an alliance zone so unless you did some very specific quests on horde you dont find this out. you can look up how the draenei escaped the orcs and send me the link if im wrong. it could be true but im pretty confident i remember what happened.

Ghost @kuharido I'm not doubting you it's just best to look things up again I do it all the time. If I could remember I would tell you but that was months ago. I remember the debate was me saying everything he did was in line with his character.

Lamby @momoichi yeah if you find contradictory evidence show me. but honestly it doesnt make sense that they could get materials when the orcs were genociding them and there was no one to help them. but i could defend the points with garrosh by saying "bad writing". there many contradictory things with his character, the biggest is when he kills an orc general for bombing innocent nelf children, telling him theres no honor in that.

Ghost @kuharido I did write out something pretty good but that was ages ago. I notice you horde always claim "bad writing" and "favoritism" :p

Lamby @momoichi i wouldnt say favoritism hurts the horde, blizz clearly favors the horde xD specially lore wise. horde has been the center of attention since the big org patch in mists. it just shows how boring the alliance is and how many times things like the alliance has existed, yet the horde being unique. id like to see your argument against the bad writing and show me how they didnt make constant contradictions to garroshes character

Lamby @momoichi i mean, theres even a meme that chris metz liked the horde better, always wearing horde shirts to blizzcon and not alliance shirts xD back before blizz was bought out the staff clearly did have favorites, so to say favoritism isnt a thing in wow is ridiculous

Ghost @kuharido Now that's gonna be a hard thing to take a side on. I wouldn't doubt favoritism buy something like that would be complex and a lot of personal feelings would come in. I remember with Garrosh, him punishing that general was actually an exception to his character rather than the norm. Yet a lot of people hated that argument on YouTube video comments cause they self identified with Garrosh. Our WoW debates are mostly just for fun to me but it gets really nasty with lore talk. Like I self identify with Varian so I defend his actions.

Lamby @momoichi its the side you choose though. if your so sure that hes a bad character through and through then that opinion must be based in fact, so show me those facts. i think favoritism for the horde simply comes into them being more interesting than the alliance. the horde is a band of misfit creatures where as the alliance is just an alliance of humanoid races. pretty boring. can you tell me what exactly you know of pre-cata garrosh? give me his lore in northrend and outland?

Ghost @kuharido I already went through that before. I'm not trying to start another debate. I'm just making a point we're going to find anyway to defend the sides we choose. Like I defend Varian, Jaina, Magni, etc. So asking me to try and prove that favoritism is true or not is asking me to assess opinions you can't quantify that. I don't favoritism is a thing but I do see horde using it more so I made a joke about that with the ":p" to emphasize its a joke.

Ghost @kuharido I don't doubt favoritism*

Lamby @momoichi if you knew back then you should know now, and your the only who brought up my garr-bear >W> ill defend him tooth and bone when i need too. what they did to him is heart breaking honestly. when he told thrall how he was his only father figure and he just abandoned him....... i cried pretty hard -_- i blame thrall for what happened to garrosh. you need to understand one important thing about garrosh that i dont think you know. he never wanted to be warchief. ever. his was a good general and expressed that that was where he prefered to be, but thrall is the one who pushed him into being warchief when he needed to yeet to the elemental shit in cata. garrosh was always pretty racist, its true, and thrall knew this yet let him be the leader of the horde regardless. garrosh did what he thought was right in the end. garrosh did not grow up around trolls and taurens and undead ect, he grew up solely around other orcs, orcs that were persecuted. he lived in shame of who his father was and what he did. thrall then found garrosh and took him under his wing, taking him to northrend to help fight the scourge. garrosh played a huge role in defeating the scourge along with the lich king, more than any alliance did and he didnt do it with magic or prayer, he did it with his brain and strength. he was a war hero. thats why thrall pushed him into being warchief, because garrosh was someone the orcs could look up to and be an inspiration to. thrall himself disregarded the other races for the orcs. fuck thrall, thrall is a piece of shit. not garrosh....

Ghost @kuharido Okay, Lamby. I only brought up Garrosh cause we're having fun butting heads a bit over WoW like we usually do. I just used him as an example when it comes to opinions on wow lore. You don't need to be confrontational anytime I mention him.

Lamby @momoichi im informing you, why be mad about it instead of reading what i said and maybe understanding that he was actually hitler?

Ghost @kuharido There is no need to inform. I'm not even trying to state anything. I was only using examples when talking about how we attach to characters. It's like walking on egg shells anytime you care about a subject you get really hostile. It's all good with me. Wow is an expansive story so it's normal for different people to like different characters. Not everything has to be a meticulously calculated debate when we're just talking.