debate

morality of veganism, though this isnt a vegan thread please debate whatever you would like to

its fine if you think my views are dumb, to each his own, but veganism would absolutely benefit the world, from the individual to the environment my point with the hypothetical was to see if you do actually have moral consideration for an animal, but if youd like to end the debate, i can accept that

Well okay it terms of legislation, I havent really done the research to know if I would be in favor of outlawing it. I dont know how much it would help the environment, but I would be in favor of passing other environmental policies to help solve that problem. If it would be necessary to outlaw the practice to save the environmental problems that we face, then I would be in favor of outlawing it. But if the environmental problems can be solved through other policies (which it looks like it probably can) I would be in favor of those instead since eating meat does still bring me enjoyment. I mean, I dont really see this debate going anywhere. If you think you can provide an argument that would change my mind then go ahead and share it. Otherwise if you or anyone else wants to debate a different subject then I wouldnt mind that as well

Gonna send it with an opinion that should ruffle feathers. The ability to own and use viable means of defense in the form of guns is and should always be considered a universal right. My favorite thing is those that are "friends of labor" but don't work manual labor jobs and also are against guns. How can you champion labor rights/middle and lower class and be antigun? For decades workers fought corporations, state, and even federal governments for the ability to not be taken advantage of. People who say the government would never over step themselves fail to realize the government had and in some areas today currently does. People that support big corporations like Apple and immigration without realizing they use foreigners both here and in their own countries as slave labor because they are unable to fight back. The Battle of Blair Mountain saw some 1 million rounds fired, the hiring of private planes to drop gas and bombs onto protesting miners, the Federal government got involved and many miners ended up jailed for years and dead all for trying to fight against being used as slave labor. The Battle of Athens saw WW2 veterans taking up arms to overthrow a corrupt local government. There are even more such events throughout our history yet people still mock the thought that weapons can be a form of not just self defense but a guard against government over reach. "The government would never do that! The police/military wouldn't go through with it!" Except, they would and have in our history already. During the Colorado Labor Wars a National Guard Officer Thomas McClellend, said: "To hell with the constitution, we aren't going by the constitution." Bell justified his actions as a "military necessity, which recognizes no laws, either civil or social." In other parts of the world, rebellions are nearly impossible due to the strangle hold the governments have on the people who lack the means to put up viable resistance. Tienanmen Square gets a lot of press in the West, but that wasn't a one off event. Many similar, though less known, protests occur in oppressive governments the world over even now. Few go far, but they show that even under the blanket of tyranny people will struggle even if they lack the ability to fight.

i would not be for outlawing meat, i think thats too radical. however, factory farming or farming in mass would be illegal, along with slaughterhouses. this would bring the meat industry to its knees. though i do believe that killing a cow is immoral, i cant really tell someone killing one in a peaceful manner is so bad. i think there needs to be compromises. is farming exploitation? 100% but it would need to be give and take. eating meat is not necessarily immoral, as im not opposed to hunting as long as its done with a rifle and all parts of the body is used. minimising farming would be a huge stress off our atmosphere, allow for more water to go to people instead of cattle, and all but halt deforestation not to mention veganism is the healthiest diet. i can link studies that show it reverses dietetes and heart disease, which is the leading killer in america. no other diet can claim this i can see the debate continuing with me trying to press your 0 emotions stance. that you would care to harm an animal and why you would care

@lamby, I'd be interested to see any links to studies that show a vegan diet being more effective than others like DASH or Mediterranean. From what I've understand, there hasn't been any randomized trials to prove such, just that the benefits are similar to previous trials involving other diets that are plant-based but not specifically meat and dairy-less. Thanks!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/ vegans are at a substantially lower risk for type 2 diabetes when compared to any other diet and those who do have diabetes have a much better time at controlling it when under a vegan diet "Among nearly 61,000 individuals, the prevalence of type 2 diabetes decreased in a stepwise fashion with each reduction in animal products in the diet: from 7.6% in non-vegetarians, 6.1% in semi-vegetarians, 4.8% in pesco-vegetarians, 3.2% in lacto-ovo vegetarians, to 2.9% in vegans." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4315380/ "The Lifestyle Heart Trial found that 82% of patients diagnosed with heart disease who followed this plant-based diet program had some level of regression of atherosclerosis and 91% had a reduction in the frequency of angina episodes, whereas 53% of the control group, fed the American Heart Association diet, had progression of atherosclerosis." veganism is the only diet that has reversed coronary heart disease