debate

when a gun is in the house suicide rates go up its the easiest way to kill yourself, and if someone is suicidal like many chronically depressed people become, its too much of a risk that save argument can go out to schizophrenic people, napalm. people with mental disorders are always on a spectrum of severity and whether or not the medication works for you two different people can take the same meds and it will work on one and not on the other same with people with depression and anxiety. we have episodes of being normal and then episodes of crippling (mental) pain late at night if i hear a creek in the house i immediately think its some prowler ready to take my skin. people with gad tend to blow things out of proportion (i even keep a broken broom handle in my room just in case) we're very antsy people, just a knock on the door makes my heart skip a beat i would not want a gun in the hands of someone like that

Thats one problem with so called common sense gun control laws really. Itll be touted as just the clear and overwhelingly agreed cases like parkinsons or schizophrenia but will lump in a slew of very moderate things. In other words it could easily go too far but us gun people are the bad guys for pointing that out. Again you had me right up until the GAD remark. If youda stopped there id commend you as a rare liberal who isnt a gun grabber. That and the more open you make the distinction the more you stigmatize mental health and we can both agree it doesnt need that.

my mom is actually more liberal than me but thinks we should keep our guns its not to uncommon with old school libs >w> i think its the younger generation that is more conservative on gun laws i dont see why thats a stigma on people with mental illness. i dont want anyone who's antsy and anxious to own a gun. if you own a gun you need to have a steady head and mind, which i dont think someone with a mental illness has this is coming from someone who has one and lives in a house with people who have them xD i would argue this is less anecdotal and more first hand experience

I'll even admit the mental health realm is more your area of knowledge and passion than mine. I commend your personal responsibility in understanding that youd be unfit. What I mean is that theres a lot of room for harm if mental health laws are crafted too openly or loosely. People can get worse but they can often improve. I also dont agree with equating guns with suicide. If someone is that set on that goal theyll use other means. It just allows "gun violence" to be a much bigger number (~66%). Its reasonable to think that guns arent the only factor in gun suicides. I doubt we can even quantify the suicides prevented if theres no gun.

I didnt know you had them in house. However that doesnt really change anything I said. Im not in overt and total disagreement. If such laws are crafted carefully and soundly and dont include other bullshit even a 90% republican congress would pass it. Your views as presented. I dont disagree on principle and you back up your ideas well enough. I do appreciate that and wanted this to be known that my disagreement is in nuance. Nothing you said makes me go "this braindead libtard"

heres a non partisan artcle that equates the rates of fatal suicides and gun ownership https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/ i would like out gun laws to be more like canadian gun laws people with guns are highly monitored and if something sketchy is seen then they send the government over to talk with you after theyv spoken with you they can either take your guns for a period of time until a court hearing or leave you with your firearms so many school shooters and mass shooters post about it online and even when its reported its ignored, and thats a huge issue i would love it to be like japan, where only military and police officers are allowed firearms, but i understand thats unrealistic for us now, so art the very least we can restrict usage i mean come on a gun is a weapon crafted to kill why wouldnt that be behind a thick wall?

i agree, your not some fear mongering conservative when it comes to guns like others are, with the whole "THE GOVERNMENT WILL BECOME A DICTATORSHIP WITHOUT OUR GUNS" while i disagree with your statements, i can tell they are fact base and not feels base

What I meant with the suicides that I'm not sure that article would touch on is something like "if there was no gun in the house would that person would have still attempted suicide". What these are at best is correlation and not causation and I believe that if we're going to restrict a right there should be a definitive causation. As soon as you stepped away from mental health I just majorly facepalmed (translation the rest of this isn't going to be as nice and agreeable as what we've been going on about mental health). I'll address my points of contention in order presented. 1. "our gun laws should be more like Canada and Japan" I could not disagree with you more. Just because I want the right to defend myself and the means to do so does not entitle the government to have an increased oversight on me (even if they probably will anyway but thats a different issue). Second off Canadian gun laws are draconian in many aspects including what types of weapons can be owned, processes, accessories and the whole nine (as far as I know Canadian gun law - I can't say I've looked super deep into the matter but from what I do know they are very strict). Our government already clusterfucks many things and giving them increased jurisdiction into simple gun ownership is just looking for trouble and abuse. Allowing only police or military to have firearms?! That is a purely libtarded thought. A government should NOT have a monopoly on force or arms. If the last 100 or so years have taught us anything is that when gun rights go down - atrocities go up. Look at two Latin American countries to see what I mean. In Venezuela they have been restricting gun rights left and right and now the people are in an uproar about how powerless they are as things have gone to shit. In Brazil their new leader has promised to open up gun rights once more after them being so restricted leaving the citizens vulnerable to cartels and shit like that and that has gotten quite the support from the people. (more on why the police / military monopoly on firearms is dumb later) 2. "So many shooters brag about it online and when its reported its ignored" Okay so a failure of our government and law enforcement to do their duty and protect the public when the threat is clear and out there should require us to give MORE authority and MORE trust in them? Like the Parkland shooting - he was out there and well known as fuck through various means but nobody did anything and it had nothing to do with gun laws either. Parkland happened in part due to a governmental and policing FAILURE. To give the same entities that have just failed us MORE power and responsibility is fucking braindead. If anything MORE people should have arms after a failure of government and police to secure us not LESS. 3. "The fear mongering conservative" I'm not the prepper who thinks every liberal is out to get my guns but that isn't due to a lack of liberals trying to do just that. One tenet of conservative philosophy is to have less power and reliance on police and government for personal protection (among other things). The ideas that restrictions and bans on guns consolidate power in the central government and decrease the power of the people leaving them susceptible to atrocities at the hand of government is just a fact. We can go back to Mao or Hitler, or we can go as recent as Venezuela the main reason a government wants to restrict guns is purely to consolidate power and increase reliance. I used to think that "the government wants to enslave us" was just RWNJ hogwash but at minimum there is enough smoke to make reasonable people believe there at least might be a fire. To deny this is to be a self righteous smug liberal. With so much talk about gun bans or restrictions or lets be like Australia. When people go on about how we should be like Europe, Japan or Canada what people are essentially saying is that guns should be a privilege and not a right, that the government should be trusted and given a wide scope of power. When people say "that wont happen here" we say "damn right" and that is BECAUSE of our 2nd Amendment RIGHT. If reliance and a power grab wasn't the goal and that it really was for the good of society then the laws would be crafted and thought of in a way to solve THE PROBLEM not just straight up restrict everyone's rights. Every gun control bill is touted as "a start" or "progress" - a start or progress..... to what? What really gets me is that libtards can say we're fear mongering and maybe we are to an extent but are you really going to examine all of the evidence and say that this fear is unfounded? At least be intellectually honest and open minded enough to realize that there might actually be something to it. Like history has shown us a very distinct pattern and we're noticing those signs here and now in America. The first thing an authoritarian government wants to do is strip power from the populace. You know what else isn't being done like at all? If a malevolent government takeover isn't the goal why is nobody doing the work to dispel it as a myth instead of just insulting people? For people to dismiss the "government dictatorship" idea is to ignore over a hundred years of recent history. Gun Control has killed many Millions in the 1900s and allowed genocides by government to occur. This is why being like Japan and allowing a government monopoly on arms is a brain dead conclusion. Not only is a gun ban except police and military not unrealistic its just plain retarded. When it comes to guns we (conservatives) actually know what the fuck we are talking about. A good 90% of anti-gun sentiment is either rooted in great ignorance or great fear or emotion. That and most gun control propositions are unduly burdensome, completely impractical, do not target the actual problem, and create more dependence on an already incompetent government. Try fixing some of these things and then revisiting "gun control". The more people actually learn about guns and history the more pro gun people become.

i skimmed and i can see your getting my views skewed xD

true, it was more correlation, but still brought a good point in why suicidal people should not be let near guns i said i WISH they were like japan, but i know thats impossible. sure, australia was able to have their guns taken away, but we're way bigger than them, it would never work out. i'm sorry, i didnt really see what the issue with canadian gun laws was could you try telling me again? maybe in a different manner (sorry im just not recognizing what you said as a downside, so i assume you didnt get your point across well enough for me to digest) napalm, the government has drones, missiles, tanks, and a laundry list of other weapons whats your semi automatic going to do against those? this is america, home of the greatest military, you think we could fight against those with automatic weapons? thats abit self aggrandising (plus the irish fought the british with just shillalies, thats bad fuckin ass) do i trust the government? fat fuckin chance. but do i think i could hold my own against them if they so choose to become a dictatorship? fatter fuckin chance. thats why you should go out and vote to keep those kind of people out you know, the kind that want military parades and say the media that is skeptical of him are telling 100% lies ;3 but thanks to our checks and balances its enough to keep anything like that from happening for a dictatorship to form the two parties would have to come together, and good luck with that xD why would you want the police, people trained in law and order, to have less power? how i see society is everyone has there uniform roles and if that isnt your role, you werent trained for it, you shouldnt take it up you want to tote a gun and try and fix crime rates? become a police officer and properly train as one. and sorry, just because of your political leaning does not automatically mean your an expert on guns doing extensive research and practice makes you an expert answer me this: gun violence is the highest in the united states, even though other country legalize gun ownership why is that?