debate

@mountain_tiger "Say what you wish about the animal agriculture industry, it does not mean that killing animals is off the table necessarily. How some industrialist decides to slaughter animals en mass doesn't necessarily dictate how the humble hunter goes out and procures meat for him or herself." No, but your not hunting all of your meat, and nor are you milking your own cow, nor are you raising your own chickens. I excuse hunters to some extent because a bullet to the head is much less cruel than what farm animals go through. "I would indeed agree that you are morally just in doing to others what others are willing to do to you. This may be off topic now, but if someone wishes to destroy you, any means they use against you should also be open to you. It is not necessarily a matter of futility, but a matter of reducing your advantages against others. Why reduce your power beyond what is necessary? Will you starve yourself because you don't want to eat an animal?" Really? So if a child hits me I can kill them? Morally, this is acceptable in your eyes? Also to the latter point, i hold human life above animals in every circumstance, if an animal is a threat to your well being by all means kill it. And i also have 0 moral qualms with indigenous people that need to hunt or use small farms to live, but you along with the vast majority of people are not in either case. "Since we operate on human morality, and human morality dictates it is occasionally reasonable to take a life, human or not, it does not change the argument. Would it be understandable for you try to and kill me out of hunger? Yes, it would be. While it is disgusting to most people, they will not judge you for trying to eat me if the situation called for it. Of course, I would immediately move to kill you if you tried this, but I would not necessarily judge you for it because humans must eat regardless." I pretty much answer this with the above. We are not in a survival situation. We go to the grocery store for our food, and we do not need meat to survive. You simply eat meat for taste pleasure. also iv seen in interviews with cannibals that they say human is akin to tough, fatty pork

@tigereyes11 found it. on menu, you can see the "dishes". my favourite is the throat tickler https://bistro-invitro.com/en/welcome-to-bistro-in-vitro/

@momoichi The argument is not where the meat comes from, the argument is whether it is morally okay for humans to kill animals for food. If you excuse people who kill animals humanely or kill animals out of tradition, then that means you are okay with humans killing or using animals in certain circumstances, and thus you say it is "excusable" to kill animals for food. That is the only argument I make. Also, you are being overdramatic, a child slapping you is not going to kill you, and killing a child will likely land you in more heat when society decides to sodomize you for it. In another case, a child soldier pointing a rifle at you will kill you if you don't kill him or her, thus you are morally allowed to kill them even if you do not like it. Perhaps you can choose a "better way" to handle the situation, but you would not be unjust if you took the shot to survive in that instance. o7

@mountain_tiger well no, my debate proposal was for someone to name the trait animals possess that allows you to forgo their moral consideration. i have always said that indigenous people are morally justified in hunting and farming, my arguments are with first world carnists that don't need to buy store bought meat to survive. I'm not being overly dramatic, you yourself said "I would indeed agree that you are morally just in doing to others what others are willing to do to you." that is the hypothetical that i used to test your own morals. but i don't even need to do that, because a cow isn't going to hunt and kill me. all farm animals are herbivores, not carnivores, none of them will try and kill us/eat us, so that argument already is null and void.

Morally it isn't correct to kill animals they don't know what they are doing that's why they kill because they don't know any other way they aren't as smart as us. You can bond with just about any animal if you grow up with it, so if you'd be able to grow up with an animal, bond with it, you'd know how alive animals really are, the argument it's "natural" is stupid because just because it's natural doesn't make it right incest is natural animals do it all the time yet it isn't right and we're smart enough to know that but they aren't just like we're smart enough to know killing another sentient being is wrong especially when you realize how full of emotion they are they aren't mindless creatures they just don't know any better

@momoichi You said you wanted a debate over veganism on the grounds of ethics, so I gave you one. If you wanted to argue along the lines of city slickers then you should have specified that. Regardless, you acknowledge that it is sometimes okay to kill and eat animals, which is the only point I was trying to make. Also, you are still just in doing to others what they are willing to do to you. Children, are intentionally a more emotionally charged appeal on this idea that doesn't hold up against me. You obviously tried it the first time when you said "oh yeah? well can I kill YOU then?". I remained consistent and agreed you could try to kill me if you needed to, so you resorted to using children, which I still remain consistent on in that you are just to take a child's life if they are legitimately trying to take your own. Your last point about herbivores only means that we can still eat animals, just not herbivores. That means we can hunt carnivores and sea creatures like sharks or whales. In fact, I hear shark fin soup is quite good. In the end, you still state it is okay to eat meat under some conditions, which is the only thing I am trying to argue in favor of. I do not see any reason to totally excuse oneself from eating meat forever. If you want to reduce your meat intake out of compassion, that is virtuous, but I do not see the point in completely banning yourself from meat or animal products as a vegan would. o7