debate

this is one of the health studies i turn to when it comes to the health benefits of vegan diets and whether the diet is adequate https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191896/

turtles are a trash animal and carry salmonella chad tortoise is better

ugh those little tortoise feet get me every time yes tort-chan, feast upon the trashy flesh of your lesser.....

since i cant sleep ill add that the only aspect of the veganism that im iffy on is pet food pet food is just ground down slaughterhouse floor scraps no slaughterhouse/no farms where do we get the meat from? iv heard vegans say some dogs can be healthy and vegan but its all anecdotal evidence and i wouldnt risk my animals healthy until real research comes out

I don't like how vegans always phrase it "here's X reasons why you should be vegan" or "why aren't you vegan yet" It feels like being treated like a child that hasn't yet evolved to a higher level of humanity. Lemme choose what I eat! Rawr! (I eat less meat and more fruits than before tho)

I'll keep it to simple logic and void of any arguments that will need research. I'm just your average fool, and my logic is pretty simple and I'm sure full of flaws. So if you're too busy Lamby, don't worry about debating anything I say. You win the ethics debate.... You've more than proven you have a very big heart, and that ethically you're a very good person. Probably far better and kinder than me. Here's my thoughts on it: 1. Supply and Demand - If you remove other sources of food by forcing a vegetarian diet. The demand for the produce would skyrocket, and the now smaller supply of foods void of meat sources wouldn't be able to keep up with peoples calorie needs. This would cause the prices to skyrocket as well. Not all varieties of produce, which would be necessary for so many people to have a balanced vegetarian diet, are so easily mass produced. 2. Nutrition - Even without doing a lot of new research, the information already made available through this debate shows that it would take a wide variety of produce to ensure people get a proper nutritional balance. With the supply vs. demand issues this diet would create, lower income families would have a difficult time getting all the variety of produce for the nutrition they need. And considering the difficulty there is making sure people get the proper nutrition even now, it would be near impossible to do so on a purely vegetarian diet. With every new extreme diet that comes out, you later hear from nutritionist how bad it is for you. And that may be in big part because people only have basic knowledge of the diets and often do them wrong. You're average person making these mistakes wouldn't be able to get that nutritional balance right. Even more so when you consider how picky people are about what produce they will eat. 3. Ecological Effects - To match the new demands for produce, the amount of farming and farm land would also have to increase. Remember the controversy with countries cutting down rainforests to make way for more farm land? You would have that issue all over again on a monumental scale. Also, some types of produce can only be grown in certain environments. Judging from history, what happens when resources are scarce and you can only get it from one place? People fight over control of it. And what would people do with all the livestock they no longer have a use for? All of these animals that now no longer have a predator to keep their population in check. There would no longer be a reason for us to care for these animals. The probability of out breaks of mad cow disease, or other diseases among these animals would also increase without the care they receive thanks to industry oversite. 4. Money - Meat is a huge industry. There's lots and lots and lots of money invested in, and to be made in it. There's no way that industry will vanish on ethical grounds. Not when money is involved. These are the very same people that have no issues selling people products known to cause cancer. I know there are a lot of optimistic people here that like to see the good in humanity. But people are for the most part selfish. All creatures are. People aren't going to give up meat. It's too impractical. And why would they care about animals when they don't even care about other people? The crap they put in our food here in the US is banded and outlawed in Europe because of how horrible it is for you. The only reason it's not banned here in the US... $$$$ 5. Kids - Kids hate vegetables. They love chicken nuggets. Good luck with making every little kid a vegetarian. I do love where your heart is though Lamby. I wish for your sake the world was a better place where people did stuff just because it's the right and ethical thing to do. P.S. I would have listed BACON as one of my reasons, but I hear they have seaweed bacon now. Score one for science and vegetarians.

spoilers: there are almost no real vegans in todays world

@lamby if you want to do a debate about veganism you can't say people are wrong for eating meat just because they like the taste or whatever, humans do lots of things that are ethically wrong, you can't just attack people on the fact that they eat meat because it's ethically wrong. they could probably care less that it's ethically wrong. "harm and suffering" well yes, you are killing the animals, 100% correct. they don't feel a thing though while they get killed. there's one vitamin, b12 that is not obtainable through plants, you can only get that vitamin through animals. that is fact. there is no perfect diet because any normal diet = perfect for humans. humans are made to be able to survive with only a certain category of food, we're animals, remember? and now you go on to say that you want to debate on grounds of ethics while you just said all that \-_-/. don't start a debate if you don't have time to discuss it :P